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Deutscher Wohlstand am Abgrund? | Markus Lanz vom 06. September 2022

Sep 07, 2022

Deutscher Wohlstand am Abgrund? | Markus Lanz vom 06. September 2022

robert habeck announced yesterday the result of this stress test two german nuclear power plants will be disconnected from the grid at the end of the 22nd and will continue to work in standby mode until april how satisfied are you with this decision the question is what is the goal of this decision there is one that says we want to prevent a blackout blackout means that if at some point during this crisis in winter we get into a situation in which the electrical network suddenly breaks down, then what you call urgency could also happen with consequences that one does not want and that's, if you will, a security measure in a pretty unlikely case because that was also made clear in the press conference that you just said okay you have that as a fallback but that's not really the game changer when you deal with the high prices when it comes to all the other stuff please let's stay there and wake the round because I think that's what people really want and interested explain to me once I'm not a physicist after that I'm curious about the mathematician in the round why isn't it a game changer? i read leonhard birnbaum the chairman of the board earlier and he said of course that has a significant effect if we use these reactors let him continue because the name simply means more electricity on the market and when prices grow so exponentially then by of course it has an impact on price development why you say no for several reasons then the first one is relevant we are talking about what is currently in german power plants it is produced by a part of the straw man which is quite small it is of the order of 6 7 percent which is not a lot compared to other countries a bit a bit what the second The thing is we have this summer if we really look at nuclear power it's still a really interesting lesson learned from France because France not only it has the pro The problem is that they have many reactors that they are repairing, which are very old, but due to the low level, they were forced to close They run a lot of nuclear power plants and they were happy that there was electricity from Germany in the form of solar power or wind power so and gas and gas too but we have we have everything and that's the point I want to get to we have this year and that also the question to boris palmer and then roderich kiesewetter they offered everything on the subject us this year in may and in july more gas was converted to electricity than ever before in the history of this country and to be honest i can't deal with it anymore as a normal citizen i feel that the government will soon send me a responsible officer who will stand in my bathroom in the morning and see how much time i really have and above all how exactly share and at the same time we make this valuable gas and there is another aspect , namely h the industry question, on the other hand, is that jobs are really being created in large numbers across the wupper simply and poignantly, why are we dumping this valuable You gas so carelessly that there's no simple answer, but there is one that ultimately has to do with the fact that you've been following the wrong strategy for years.
deutscher wohlstand am abgrund markus lanz vom 06 september 2022
We all know that gasoline was incredibly cheap. We get gasoline here in Germany from one nation, so it can be for or against Russia, but any normal person would say if I have such a major asset then I have a broader view of myself, I didn't have a single supplier, so to speak, but several, that was not the case and as a result, because of the low prices, something developed where people said okay, we use gas in the form of, for example, combined heat and power, he says, that's a long term sin that we committed and it's slowly falling off our feet I mean we have a real problem and that's always an em problem that is related to decisions that were made incorrectly years ago you also see the past yeah , I agree of course we find von raoul's argument interesting because he said France has a problem in the summer I'm in This morning Hamburg woke up and clearly noticed that winter is coming which means to that the summer is not an argument.
deutscher wohlstand am abgrund markus lanz vom 06 september 2022
The question is what is going on this winter and even if they ask why there is no point in letting nuclear power plants keep running on this electricity, we say we need it all. that can still be used a little bit at least it's ok so if it's nuclear then the first argument is purely quantitative it's not a game changer because there's just very few left ten years ago we would have talked about a different amount now. it's so small we're only talking about those who are still running and that's not the game changer and the decision robert habeck can make is a wise one as far as a change in the law is coming so far the operation of a nuclear power plant after December 31 and what has now been announced is that this ban will be postponed until the end of April I think that is what your suggestion means is a legal possibility that we do not have to use these power plants in an emergency which seems pretty appropriate to the situation to me, but it can't be a game changer, the amount is too small for that.
deutscher wohlstand am abgrund markus lanz vom 06 september 2022
I'm listening to political parties right now. words, how do you see that they are not political parties, but if we see that the nuclear power plants that we have provide about 5 to 6 percent of the electricity, then it means something different for baden-wuerttemberg and bavaria we are currently for the south of germany where the industrial heart beats and hopefully for a long time how to get relief the second point also has his electorate there yes and he will we will be directly elected him in tübingen and everyone I know what we have big companies here we have companies that produce batteries but also for the monsters The big gas guzzlers are in mechanical engineering and others, or in the paper industry, so the power plants can continue to run, but now it comes to the point where it would turn the population this time, so three rich nuclear power plants have some power generation for ten million. people, I don't want to say now, we have to have all three, we have already closed it, it would also extend to 94 million people, but to summarize, the generation of electricity for ten million people and the second The point that we have to make , in addition to the extension, is that we then remove the latest Pascal power plants from the electricity pricing system.
deutscher wohlstand am abgrund markus lanz vom 06 september 2022
If we were to get relief, I think that is the short condition. immunity robert habeck quoted the winner i got the external admitted these days that the continued operation of nuclear power plants is exactly this argument would mostly push these more expensive gas-fired power plants out of the market, which means that translated price of electricity would be to go down or not, only sometimes inside we need something else because there are so many gas-fired power plants on the market that their price is always what determines what electricity costs on the exchange, that's a bit complicated, but to put it quite simply if I'm running a solar system with it today as much as a year ago because the sun hasn't gotten more expensive that's 67 18 kilowatt hours of this electricity if I generate 6 78 cents per kilowatt hour for it and the tübingen utility company generates two thirds of tübingen's electricity requirements from solar and wind power, where are your wind farms and greiner photo on the outskirts of Thuringia, but at least in parts? we all bathe in germany and we also have them as far away as brandenburg that means stadtwerke tübingen operates wind farms and solar systems all over germany that was a strategy i have been promoting for climate protection reasons for the last 16 years my argument was yes no you made money off of it so it's In any case you don't make a lot of climate protection off of it for nothing but we were able to do climate protection and that's why today as a state we have two thirds of our own electricity from the sun and how I produce it today is so cheap as it was since that year production is as easy as selling rodents electricity costs ten times the price on the stock market because the price is not determined by the average value of production costs - that's how you might think as a consumer, but the most expensive power plant that was still needed determines the price of everything and the most expensive power plant is becoming a power plant vargas gas power too expensive and removing all gas power plants from the market will not succeed even if nuclear power plants continue to run because we have 13 percent gas power generation 06 atomic which means that the price of herbal energy doesn't keep getting lower because we still need gas. only one working is the same Caro as before.
deutscher wohlstand am abgrund markus lanz vom 06 september 2022
I suppose that the first ones are expelled in the prize. If nothing there, we would have yes. If I were completely with you, Mr. Kiesewetter. We would have to cancel the mechanism by which electricity prices are formed. be canceled again very briefly, we consider that your municipal utilities in Tübingen are currently earning a golden nose in this crisis, since with power plants selling against the market we can earn ten times what we have costs in the production room, that means making the utility no exception, that means they make random profit, it's purely random profit, the crisis was, I think, if they pay extra tax for paying tax.
deutscher wohlstand am abgrund markus lanz vom 06 september 2022
I speak against the fact that I make these profits so we calculate on a regulated basis of seven cents and I would like a decent return on equity of 5 so I would like to be able to sell for 8 cents but I don't want to sell for 70 cents on the stock market because money is missing elsewhere because now electricity producers are earning a gold nose they are completely different on the way coal is no different i the production price has only doubled if the sale price has multiplied by ten they still make huge profits and we didn't invest in coal-fired power plants because we wanted to be green, so the electricity producers generated gigantic random profits which, on the other hand, led industrial companies to ruin and burdened the coffers of the homes that we later said that social peace had fallen, that's why I was against these gains in a very brief moment and since only even the most interesting is known n and i can go right away maybe i'm not sure kiesewetter i don't know if alice motor is so good in the picture but the question who's winning is so unbelievably good that's the old law of the stock market of stocks yes the big ones the money never goes away just has who else loses so who's who who are they who are really dumb and stupid earning their public services which is a very small player bitterly who else would I then they would interrupt the big matches to that people on the outside really understand how it works that the electricity market is really complicated, but when it comes to prices, we're not talking about there being some bad people, st says, but a lot of money right now merit order model yeah and basically it has to do with i'll break it down with that man i really get it suppose we all become providers we can't use electricity let's say e we don't exactly produce apples idea ok so there are tübingen apples, yes, there are good apples, there are red roses, these apples, they can be made for a euro coin, you just do a number, that's right, that's right, and in this group of five people each can deliver 10 apples so we need them at the end we have to put together 50 apples now the question in the market is how do we do that because there are apples from



from south tyrol that are manual how should i put it unassembled and on contrast with the production costs of one euro we cost 10 euros we have a market and that is exactly what you have to understand that means that in the end you say that I need 50 apples and now it is about what is the price how it is done and there is the More expensive, so to speak, that automatically determines the rest.
This is how it works in our very simple electricity market today, that means basically for the sun, if you don't have to pay anything for the wind but lignite, coal or what should this tage also with paw colleagues interesting comparison also read with apples interestingly who made it even clearer said there is a demand for ten apples interchangeable goods yes all spikes are like the same price and there is a demand for an eleventh apple then the price goes up until one goes out and because he can no longer afford that expensive apple or someone is willing to buy that eleventh apple elsewhere for a lot of money and the prices of the other ten go up automatically , that's it, so to speak , the story is not real that the gentlemen are talking about that's easy that's the example of capitalism because maybe we should ask a very fundamental question, namely, is energy really a market , why in a normal market do not buy in pully, then I will find out at some pointIt's expensive and I don't buy demand offered but with energy in an industrial country, we depend on it, that means we don't have to tell the broker, we also back off and spend this winter without gasoline, but the whole debate shows how dependent we are , what we need and for me that is the question to what extent. these market mechanisms are why you put it there, they also have advantages a few that produced cheaply had more and more incentives, for example renewable energies because they are much cheaper to produce and that is a question that really has to be asked today what you notice in the debate is that the old idea of ​​free the market is always there more comes from intervention now people are talking about taxes on profits or it can get caught too bad i think that is a very important position at some point you have to know what kind of music we make or we make one where we say goodbye to the free market and regulate it differently that's pretty complicated, or we'll stick with it and then maybe slow down completely and say, okay, that it does not matter, that is political and we have to act differently, that is really complicated and the eyes say because the international language still exists it is long and rich an ha and here i talk but also the issue of solidarity in france currently needs our practice If there is too much electricity in winter they will not be able to start up their nuclear plants as fast because they have low water levels which will also last a while in winter and it is a argument for european solidarity if we let our nuclear power plants run beyond these three four months until we understand european when energy in the climate it would have now would have a good killer argument in belgium just extended the run time by two miles to 2035 european in your direction very well by boris palmer direction too and obviously we are going from countries that have been asked to allow our oven to run longer and in fact it has been seen again that two inferior Bavarians could with this behavior fuel rods that are now there with 60 to 70 percent performance of bismarcks just like than the experienced then we could replace the core of the material itself physically no idea wi and that's it then it's used and then it goes on till july at 80 percent power no one should tell me it doesn't do anything yeah it's just electricity that we can actually use, a word was said that has to do with solidarity. if we look at the electricity market europe is completely interconnected you have to imagine that at the beginning of the year even ukraine joined the european power grid now you have to do it feeling like we all know this 50 hertz hum that you sometimes get here in the studio you can hear exactly the same hum in kyiv for example because the electricity over europe is in exactly the same phase there in this context right before the ski vows it is forbidden for us to get electricity from ukraine at this time too to be honest , I can't answer that in principle, yes, so you can take a close look at it, in principle, it's a big network, of course, how to get electricity is more likely and from France it's about the same ld, but in principle, could that be the idea of ​​building a big power grid so fluctuations will even out like this summer?
As far as I know, yes, only now 66 of the eleven reactors have been shut down, so what is happening with the other nuclear power plants? As far as I know yes they are on the power grid and we get electricity in balance but that is not a matter of ukraine offers mine theirs also supplies german the same state is that it is part of a big european power grid so say that they give us electricity or that is exactly what is being negotiated very dynamically at the rate of hours in kittel the robot then it is boris palmer the problem is that this question, which actually does not have to look at the way he is asking it , should not be seen as partisan and we are talking about a few months here we are talking about ideology so that's that It's a shame the greens are worried if they give in on this question that the pdf will come in and raise the question of the future of nuclear power again , see the discussion as the reason I know it's going to be many more years, it just isn't. a few months it's about looking into the future and I think we're all really concerned that atomic power has had its day as the energy of the future for a number of reasons and that's why you can't say I'm talking about how you did it but party political considerations come into play and the issue is drowned in ideology, so I have the right and now I would like to agree, although green, of course, is not ideology in the game system and it seems that all parties, there are no parties. out of ideas that means what robert habeck announced yesterday was or was driven by jürgen's commitment whether they call it ideology or attitudes or basically i don't care but of course there is something behind it it's logical that's why we do politics for that the analysis is interested it is consistent with the analysis and I chose the latent green suit I can see calmly I have the feeling that now calmly I can explain everything to us completely crazy just like my colleague mr kiesewetter black quite very that is this new cdu crazy with oön t-shirt i can explain it calmly for my party is the robot i have now made giving up on this legally set end date for this reactor is a giant step but also appreciates when someone goes beyond their own limits.
He did that and actually would have said strict power management operation so phasing out power from these existing fuel rods is smarter but that was too much for my group simply and because this strict operation but we as new members can make it so big because i think i can explain who and i also understand that it is not enough if you started 40 years ago in a demonstration against the nuclear power plants we had because they prevented it in vienna and in bruckdorf where the people everywhere are now saying yes you want to expand these nuclear power plants that's bad if you then say ok as a smart finance minister now I have an idea that keeps my options open the legal environment or it will be postponed four months and I have four months to react if we notice December is getting tight and you really need these nuclear power plants.
Do you still have the option to start the operation and then it depends on the situation, my party can say yes, maybe reluctantly, because we have no choice, but at the moment it is not that far and that is why a smart political strategy Nachzug because I did that but I would also like to do it like that the Pope's electricity market regulation wanted it now exactly I would like to lose we know we get stuck with the question of who is making real money right now and I mean this electricity market, this energy market, if you deal with it, it's not really a free market, it's a fully regulated market, move the question, you couldn't go any further and say folks, that's the price and that It's the end, I think we've got it. to solve the problem of quantity and price discuss the problem separately they are two different questions the problem of quantity there is a very clear answer for me it should not happen that the lights go out it should not happen that the gas in the industry goes out and what is necessary to promote this must be done word evo ix so we need mario kg the problem of the price is to separate it is also very very difficult but the quantity and the price are not directly related it is due to marriott it does not mean that I have more nuclear energy than suddenly it's cheaper it's just not the case and when I look at this quantity problem then I say there's one thing I don't know I don't get it, as chairman of the supervisory board of stadtwerke tübingen I know that tomorrow I could live my life and turn off all the power stations gas power in tübingen and nothing would happen because then we always have an oil boiler and oil is available it is not a problem of prices ta little and we could use the entire district heating system right away and the rest switch to oil and that would obviously be right in the dispute with Putin and obviously right to save gas for German industry we don't but why not?
If we do it, I can't do it because I would go to jail for what it would be for the Stadtwerke team. I still have the current figures for me today. coupled with today's stock prices means a loss of 25 million euros by March next year I, as chairman of the supervisory board, cannot be held responsible for 25 million euros in damage to my own company I am going to jail that's why it's infidelity which means i need a new frame i need a frame from the stadtwerke tübingen and that's about the life ten percent of the gas flow from electricity generation in germany ten percent something in combined heat and power plants energy many of them operate municipal utilities that we could convert tomorrow because there is always something with oil power plants ten percent is germany what are the dimensions in germany due to 20 percent the biggest gas consumption in tübingen is generation power by utility company there is oil and we need the others can reduce it too percent in total germany that's a job it's volume 18 or 10 but that's enough for us there we have the oil so it really is that The oil problem is not a problem either, the only problem is the economic disadvantage that the electricity that generated the heat that I can Producing with oil at the same price is even cheaper, but the electricity that I generate has already been sold.
The public services have customers who are there all year round, they must be supplied by contract, and there is also a price for it, and if I turn off my own power generation now it's clear and suddenly I buy power at short notice on the exchange the cage the strobl spreader there are ten times more expensive than a production and costs and then I have 25 million and now my request would be to the federal government we need an offer to the operators of these power plants what makes this damage complicated our we figured out how much it would be i read talk about five billion in germany are the prices n redressed maybe also at ten billion is a lot of money but compared to the 65m billion that the current package includes, it would be an investment in our future, okay, and the preservation of our industrial site will be. if the shutdown comes then germany will realize that then we will have an industrial collapse the consequences of which i cant even imagine i am ok so seven years for your power extension for a certain period of time i have the wind up operation very briefly on the subject of industrial meltdown so you advocate saving gas so to speak the municipal utilities are important to make this electricity with oil and the heat it needs and we could save a lot of gas because German industry only kiesewetter you liked it briefly indicated on the stick goes or how do you have to imagine that so I listen when you hear the bad things like or I would start with artisan bakeries they have an average of 56 employees we have 900 euros of gas per month and now it is almost 3000 euros for his ovens that means tripling or quadrupling the operating gas costs per month that he had at the weekend meeting with the bakers' union he said that the loaf of bread should cost between eight and ten euros from October and a comparable paper production toilet paper what you read wet wipes all made over the years so we have an extreme price spiral that e will come and that's why one argument is how can i get it cheap in terms of electricity is it worth taking gas out of merit order electricity wouldn't help baker in wind power they don't want to help but stop my electricity and year after year year that would help that at some point we had their sins so sure it was probably just continuing to quote the right steep thesis you get in trouble and get mail even if you say something like that but ic I think it's a good thing you say that, above all, the economy has to work and not private households.
You can do it. I want to adjust it a bit more for special occasions. That's how it is. We have a European regulation. You can always look at Europe and The European regulation establishes that there are prioritizations and these are private homes, these are nursing homes, hospitals, social institutions, the Bundeswehr and security police, fire brigades, police forces, professional firefighters and only second is the economy and I think it wouldn't help much if people on unemployment benefit 1 or accordingly continued on unemployment benefit 2 part of the benefit of citizens sitting at home adjusting their temperature but no longer working, that's why the decisive factor is that the economy works and we have to transmit it through the board we also had to in the debatesparliamentarians I think there are few differences below But the decisive factor from my point of view is that this is not considered sufficient, but to regulate whether the Germans can get along with 24 degrees or 18 degrees and my call here is political leadership, that also by the Federal Chancellor by the presidents of the parties, perhaps even in all areasalso including the opposition, it is said dear people, we have two three difficult years ahead of us, this is how the war will last if Ukraine does not have to accept a dictated peace and win this time and check who is here your camera you cell phone 3 this could now call resignation here the crucial thing is we need reason our population is under considerable pressure and we parliamentarians and government have We have to understand these pressures and that means we have to do everything we can to ensure that the population is one heartbeat ahead of two difficult three years and not the next six months and that is why it is important that reserves can be created that a relay can be given and some of the packages that exist between speakers and for students are also reasonable certain ceilings but it is not enough if we take stock and after that such see why these obviously lack political leadership with you, you have shown that you do what you hear as a base man vega is right in tübingen hagelloch just announced in becker on the third generation of the saab 92 years there that he will wake up at the end of the year justification stops justification no longer worth it i can no longer produce bagels or pretzels at the prices i still get i have increased prices once the result i sell less income stays the same i traded it back and forth i can afford the costs Do not pass on flour and energy to consumers I conclude that this is just the beginning I am afraid that 73 years A little more 500 employees The company is taking risks from the beginning One of the few surviving texts of industry and religion once very important in the textile industry, almost all gone or wisdom survives because, for example, they produce premium special textiles heaven on the roof of the car it's made by roche of tübingen, that's a process that's extremely technological I think, but I also rely mainly on gas, you need 500 degrees, they produce so much waste heat in their factory that we were able to do a decoupling with it last year we took the waste heat of this industrial company and we can use it to completely heat a district with 2000 inhabitants consumes so much gas it is crazy and this company can no longer survive in terms of price if a gas is armed in the system and the contracts expire and for that there is demand four times the gas tells me why the owner of the generation company appears that we will not survive if they do not help us and it is critical I see it very strongly I think the re The distribution that they are currently making is correct because the poorest of the poor who cannot buy bread or heating and cannot buy electricity are going to bankrupt this society, that is obvious, but you are not exactly the same when the sources of prosperity dry up when the industrial base collapses and that happens if we do not help these companies to learn politics the media should be exempt from the gas system energy intensive companies cannot pay gas surtax besides that, an exception can be made and we can look even further go ahead if the gas goes out then he tells me my delivery contracts are so small they haven't delivered for two weeks i will never get another contract so it's in east asia and that's it i can't do it from germany anymore supplying in this industry in our country there are 500 jobs in my city it is a great disaster for each affected family and that has to be prevented and then I don't understand why do I have to keep generating gas another 20 percent of the gas in my town goes to electricity this company needs gas they didn't even allow me to save on that I would even say dear federal government there is no money at all but let me step on the accelerator, then I will try it in the industrial company because I know that the taxes that will be many times more in the next ten years I know that I have to pay now to put all this back I can yes, no because the closure is done by the federal level and what's to come in terms of its importance I don't think it's adequately discussed at the level all of that ultimately isn't serious what we're doing here we're really on the verge of deindustrialization and then I read that since the federal legislature regulates that already I am not allowed to illuminate the town hall in Tübingen, write the forcam myself, by the way, that you turn it off, but those symbol measures are prescribed and we simply do not use the real gear levers lly important thieves when do i have to say i understand if i still break up with the owner of the company understanding the v it happens to him too and now i have made one says then we have to try to show it also as an environmentalist anyway he started a huge plant three years ago to enforce the highest environmental standard all the exhaust fumes that have already been cleaned goes through an incineration plant again the gas is operated because only at 1000 degrees the last polluting molecule breaks down that ranka yogeshwar knows best that i would suggest that for this winter shutdown that has no health effects are the last two percent of perfection that we can afford in germany too, like the people in my town in tübingen, i would say this elimination of the two percent is ok percent of contaminants, which did not exist until three years ago. we all lived well in tübingen.
I miss our industry.