Gregor Gysi und Michael Roth streiten über Entlastungen für Bürger und Russland-Sanktionen
Welcome dear viewers to the high level discussion about the war in Ukraine and its serious effects on us Still demonstrating in Leipzig on Monday and you are already sitting here with us Have a nice day and SPD politician
Roth who is the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the German Bundestag and has warned the Federal Government to support Ukraine with more arms deliveries since the beginning of the terrible war of aggression, a warm welcome also thanks for the invitation yes Mr. Gisi we have prepared some photos of how you demonstrated on Monday night in Leipzig you can see them on stage according to your party there were 4000 people there could you explain very briefly what you are up against there on Monday night Leipzig specifically hell there are growing fears among the population and the parties politicians are called upon to take this seriously and react there is deep uncertainty about how the insolence will continue I see how energy price increases will continue soon with the price and income of groceries are resurging as well and I am firmly convinced that it is precisely the task of the left to democratically organize and accompany such a protest so that not all or more and more right-wing extremists follow consequences for AFD which was also the plot she tried to get in with that but there was no chance she was also on the site they distanced themselves I want to bring Mr Brodt into the game for a moment who tweeted something about this demo on Monday, we'll see. quote today i want to abuse the legacy of monday demonstrations for real democracy and putin friends to spread your lie that everything will be affordable and comfortable again if we finally let go of ukraine he
gysi you feel led to me for not do what the day said again.
I am a friend of Putin's who, by the way, I have never met. to the others and I don't want us to let Ukraine down, I even went there and not like the others with a partial visit but several nights and days and looked at the damage, that's not the point anyway, you have to fear socially seriously and from Of course, we have to know that we need peace in Europe and I am convinced that without a compromise we will not achieve it. In fact, we can have a long-lasting war that goes on for years where there is a balance of power, so to speak, but no one. can do that Being a solution, we have to find a solution, and of course Ukraine has an S, which is completely indisputable for me.
The right to self-defense was perhaps a bit of an exaggeration semantically I'm not with normal people at all and of course they're very concerned because middle income people also see problems continuing to have energy to pay the bills tweeted here about the protesters I despise. Democracy and me Despite all personal respect, I agree with
Gysi that we both condemn Russia's aggressive war against Ukraine, which violates international law. I disagree with him on all other points and I certainly see some similarity in his argumentation. with the argument of people who actually have Putin in mind as a very nice person and blame only one example that is a harsh accusation that is a harsh and justified accusation for example I heard
Gysi also said on Monday in a demonstration on Monday In reality, NATO was to blame for everything, for everyone, NATO did everything wrong in dealing with Russia.
I think this is very bad Putin propaganda, because once again it gives the impression that Russia and Putin alone are not responsible for this terrible war. because this war is a provocation by NATO, which would not have accepted Russia's sphere of influence and therefore, of course, the right to sovereignty and the right to freedom of the Eastern European countries is punished with lies and I believe that that's a serious mistake and a serious omission I just didn't have that at all said you misquote me of course I said a sentence and it said I know the EU and NATO have done almost everything wrong regarding Ukraine and Russia that can be do wrong I will give you an example and then I have said but there was not a single error in practice.
The fall of Russia on the Ukraine is correct and that's why we have to be absolutely successful for the people because I know there are also many who develop a little bit of understanding because of that and I say there is no justification for war even though mistakes have been made, I admit it Example Russia wanted to make a customs agreement with Ukraine and said, but only on the condition that you do not make an agreement with the EU, the EU said that it would make an agreement with you, but only on the condition that you could not make an agreement with Russia according to God why don't you agree to maybe make a bridge between the EU and Russia out of Ukraine now it's too late but there were such opportunities back then I just want to say that I would like to always be duly quoted if and that's why it sounds different from what he says, I notice or what they told him because he smiled well, he smiled because it is again a narrative whore, it helped us and again it is about not respecting the free decision of a free country with a government not automatically elected.
At that time, people took to the streets because the then president of Ukraine bowed to Putin and then he did not want to sign the Association Agreement with the EU anymore then the revolution broke out the orange revolution in milan and I think this revolution not only deserves respect but it was a clear call we want to be part of this European community of values and I believe that this decision deserves respect and they have We did not make this decision, we did not make it in Germany or in Brussels, it was the people of Ukraine who he took it, of course, it came from within, of course, but also a little from without, and the condition was not a relationship with Russia, which he would not have done in such an association agreement.
I discovered that yes, not bad either, by the way, his deselection did not work in terms of constitutional law, that was only possible because 75% of the deputies rejected it, with 72% saying that this is not important, then he left apartment and of course I also respect the regime that's why I was Yes there too and I also respect the will of the people for democracy and freedom however we have a war and we still need a solution and no help just keep saying that we love weapons, the diplomatic solution is no longer thought of, it is the only one that exists, I mean, I think it is too abstruse, Erdogan is the president of Turkey, why can't Scholz be the mediator to find a solution as soon as possible? fastest possible? and by the way, I'm not using Putin's arguments at all, I'm just saying that a lot of mistakes have been made before because it's just my immediate neighbor Russia and I'm allowed But remember the Cuban Missile Crisis when the Soviet Union wanted to park missiles in cuba kennedy said it would lead to world war 3 if he didn't change the ships and luckily he did change things then they made compromises so you can totally do it yeah don't ignore russian security interests either but justify them so they don't get me wrong, everyone, not the war, the fire, the mistakes that have been made are important and if we want to have a peace order in the future, we also need to think about ourselves and say what we can do differently to make sure that that such a war in Europe never happens again.
It has become clear, Mr.
Rothschotet, it is still in his head, probably because of the references to the mistakes the United States made. in the past in a bit tired well in 2008 there was a clear NATO rejection of NATO Ukraine or Georgia joining then-chancellor Merkel and the then-French President shunned this desire for membership, hell again, holy water , there was a clear demarcation and what you say reminds me again very strongly of what I keep hearing that we interfere too much in Eastern Europe and that is clear to me Contradiction with the legitimate right to freedom of the people and I defend these interests and in the end the ukrainians decide exclusively and alone and if you want a diplomatic solution then you need at least two not only ukraine and the ukrainians but above all the dictator putin we will talk about mediation attempts and arms deliveries right away.
Erdogan and not Scholz is not feasible. I can explain to you that a dictator helps the other authoritarian ruler, but a dictator is a member of NATO and, on the other hand, there was a tactical interest from Putin. here for once a concession. First of all, he wants to have the countries of Africa and other developing countries on his side and he no longer wanted to deal with the accusation that he is responsible for world hunger because after all he blocked the delivery of beans and that was it. for what he gave in, he is cynically concerned with his own power, with his own sphere of influence and not with the interests of developing countries, of course that is good and I also think it is good that the UN Secretary General is doing good efforts, but they are very, very small Triple Steps the great solution that we all want, which is peace, which will only be achievable if Ukraine, from a position of strength, can force Putin back to the negotiating table. so far there has only been one demand that putin has raised and i see it the surrender of ukraine is still in the room and neither we nor ukrainians can do that let me say something about that i think the sentence that ukraine must capitulate unconditionally is completely wrong because Ukraine has the right to self-defense and has to decide whether and what compromises are entered into by taking Russia off the map, not by me. and now I come to the second, but the statement of the Foreign Minister does not work either, she said that the war ends only when the last Russian soldier has left the Ukrainian territory, we have no right to it if the Ukrainian leadership finds some kind of compromise with Russia, whether we like it or not and as a result the guns stop firing, we have to consider this compromise, that is, I am a staunch opponent of this war, but I would like it to stop once in a while and for that you need some kind of of solution, since that is not easy to discuss I don't, but you need more and more diplomacy for that The solutions must deduce that he does not do that they also know No and we have wanted to solve now for years Mr.
Red's solution is obviously that the federal government more support for Ukraine in the form of weapons I give everything militarily can beat Russia forget okay I admit one thing, my argument to the citizens and it is very difficult to convey, for it is I'm not sitting here tonight to explain that, my position has to be well justified because it's hard to recognize that if you don't deal with it every day More weapons will lead to faster peace I don't believe Mr. Putin, but I am convinced that if he himself feels and knows that he cannot win this war anymore because Ukraine can assert itself, then he will see an opportunity for himself again at the negotiating table, so if we leave Ukraine alone now if we don't politicize them financially table and military support, then there will be a dictated peace and it may well be that you and others would agree if Ukraine ceded 20 or 25 percent of its territory to Mr.
Gysi a very specific question: what would he have done otherwise? different in the last six months? I definitely would have tried to mediate constant talks with both the Russian and Ukrainian sides to see if there is a chance of a deal, I know. Of course, I don't want to make any more calls with them. often, but I stopped and then Erdogan took over. I was glad Macron and Scholz did it so you know militarily it's Russia neither to fight unless we make world war 3 then we can't afford it of course I'll say it again Ukraine has the right to self defense but you have to do it if you win the wars quickly, how can i win? you know that because then this one has the man directing nuclear war or what do you imagine the russian armed forces are also underestimated because the media always portray it that way russia cannot be served by ukraine even with a lot of weapons we cannot send to our own soldiers there again, nor the French soldiers because then we will have world war if you don't want it, you understand that all help in that sense is limited and therefore what you can do is make a permanent war where you are you fine then putin also claims he can't win if i want it but not a war that lasts years we have to find some solution leading to a ceasefire so again where is this fear of nukes playing ?
Putin, who of course knows that we have big concerns here, that this warrior is more or less active again on us, we have one, of course, plays quite consciously with the use of nuclear weapons di The Soviet Union has lost Afghanistan, although it is a nuclear power, the US has failed along with us in Afghanistan, no matter where you are a nuclear power, that doesn't mean that the nuclear powers are militarily involved somewhere that they will automatically use nuclear weapons. weapons and if I look at how the Russian army is there at the moment, it says how emaciated it is and to what extent all the military experts have failed, by the way, also in Germany or almost all of them have declared that there will be a blitzkrieg in a few days and weeks the army Russian took over Ukraine none of that happened and we are witnessing it now insouth of ukraine there are even chances of ukraine liberating territory from russia again i think it's a realistic possibility because by the way the western made weapons we give out make a big difference and that has to continue now and not that gives the impression wrong.
I want peace like
Gysi, I want peace, but in the end there will be a free, democratic, sovereign Ukraine, capable of deciding on its own future, and I don't want any more wars, because if Putin realizes that he can win, then Moldova threat, then Georgia threatens then other conflicts threaten you other military experts Mr. Swiss military expert who writes that Russia's military strength is completely underestimated and the media gives the impression that the troops have forgotten the name Now I can say it, but I have it on my mobile phone and he was already active in the EU in NATO and so on, it is said that everything is underestimated and that is just my concern that we believe that the Ukrainian troops can really defeat the Russians, of course we they are right even the superpowers when they go to a third country are not accepted there and there we can lose like the soviet union in afghanistan btw the usa in vietnam no cause for concern p But I have nothing against it, now I say again that Ukraine has the right to self-defense.
I am against Germany supplying weapons because we had the worst war in world history with 50 million deaths and that is why we should never win another war but we are the fifth largest arms exporter in the world we win with every war , but what else, the other countries have a different story, they can hand over weapons. we could pay humanistically that's what it's all about. I'm not the only one who knows that if we get a lot done, we're going to get a balance of power, which means they're not progressing well and they're not doing well. progress, and then we will have a long lasting war and I don't want that, and that's why I just want us to try that I realize the federal government is thinking to mediate if there is any solution that can be accepted, of course Ukraine must follow being a sovereign path so that he can decide for himself how it develops there, again we are in complete agreement, my question is intransigent, however, it has vergisi a point that parallels the support of Arms at the diplomatic level Try to mediate that the chancellor does not it was absolutely wasted by the federal government, the chancellor is then a patient man, he is probably a lot more patient than I could be and has now spent hours with the French.
The president also exchanged with the Russian president on the phone and I think he had to acknowledge the French president in the same way, that's 0.0 willingness to limit anything to a diplomatic solution, this dictator hasn't gone that far yet and then it's more . of a great need that no one yours It is very important to repeat the history and historical responsibility of Germany because here we also succumbed to Putin's narrative. Russia is not the only successor state to the Soviet Union and many international states that have caused endless suffering. 27 million dead civilian soldiers and soldiers Europe, this responsibility does not only apply to Russia, it also applies to Ukraine, I want to remind you of Bavin, yes, I want to remind you of the many killed Ukrainians, that is why I have a completely different argument, especially our responsibility to history we are never ever getting involved again all over the world we are getting involved and when I look at how slowly we expect how slowly our industry is delivering we didn't even manage to equip a threatened country like Ukraine with weapons so fast as possible, first because our armed forces do not have these weapons and second because the German defense industry obviously cannot deliver as fast as it needs to now and I don't want Russia and China to deliver weapons alone, but there you see a coat of arms like the one that Germany sells for the first time worldwide.
Libya that on both sides the German coats of arms were one person every 14 minutes so there was no private gain from them because now the government is finally making the FD resisted for a long time what random gain is called for what the excess profits tax which, for example, Great Britain but also Greece Italy Spain raise where they say If the energy companies and others make so much money from the war, then they have to pay at least part of this excess profit in the form of taxes, but nobody thinks about the arms industry, which also gains enormously from the war, and then these excessive profits would have to be taxed, I don't mind importing other countries rn and with us too because I want it to stop there being winners in third countries from wars as long as there is an arms industry as private as the one we have around the world that is not thought of in relation to Germany mania or stop doing it because they always think of something how you can also run a war very briefly before you talk about the aid package then you have 0 red dots so first of all we have a restrictive armaments policy in Germany and I'm willing to make this policy even more restrictive but in the end we're living in times of war probably doesn't make the world more peaceful with less guns when I hear we could hardly hold our own for two weeks against a Russian invasion that we don't even have to have enough ammunition, we also talk openly and honestly about better equipping our Talking to the Bundeswehr, yes, it's about ammunition, it's about weapons, and I find it very regrettable. h and it is also tragic that we cannot militarily equip Ukraine faster so that it can not only defend itself but also liberate the territory conquered by Russia and I think it has to be put in this context because we have a completely different situation and that is why I also defend this program of 100 billion euros from Olaf Scholz, which not only serves the Bundeswehr but also serves to ensure that we meet our obligations in NATO and I'm not just thinking of Germany, I think I'm thinking of Lithuania.
I'm thinking of Poland. I am thinking of the many countries that are afraid of Russian aggression. I know they still want to say something about it. They want to say something about what we're talking about right now, but I'm sure. they would be happy to say something on Monday really don't leave it like that because the reason given by Sweden and Finland is that they want to join NATO because then Russia won't attack us we are already in NATO so pretending that a Russian attack on Germany is imminent is absurd, so maybe we have to rethink again, yes, now we are rethinking the change of subject and talking about what is on the minds of many citizens these days. the other effects of this war in the form of rising energy prices, for example, we have prepared a small video here of Franziska Nürnbe
rger, she works in the administration of a school in Zwickau, lives with her parents on 85 square meters and what she should now pay the guest in the future she told us and let's listen to that together now hello Mr.
Roth my name is Franziska Nürnbe
rger I come from near Zwickau and we are currently paying a monthly gas deduction of 93 euros for our small house family from october this gas deduction should increase to 789 euros increase i still have our mark of reduction to come there half a year m it is a financial catastrophe for our family and we definitely cannot cope with it. I have now canceled the gas supplier we have also changed but the monthly amount will also be around 500 euros with the new gas supplier that is an incredible amount of money just for Gas and I would like to hear your ideas on what else can be do to support more low- and middle-income people in this crisis and somehow cushion the massive price increases.
I am very afraid of this despite going to work every day in poverty to fall because at some point I think I will not be able to support you financially anymore thanks for your suggestions what is your answer Ms. Nuremberg so first of all I can understand the concerns very well increased from the age of 93 that I experience that I have already said what I live if also in my environment in my neighborhood I live it myself in principle but I bet That yes, it does not work to the same extent as someone with an average income, and that is the hard in the middle, which must be alleviated, that is why we have already said at one point that there is a ceiling for the price of electricity for basic consumption, the same should continue now for gas consumption, we still do not have a concrete solution, but that is the next step that must be taken and then there are others up to what price and what consumption must be met because this price of electricity must be based on the average consumption of a family of four, let's say orientation, to yes I don't think I'm assuming that citizens use electricity or heat without needing it, but they manage it very responsibly and there are corresponding figures I think we have to focus on families, we have to aim for median income targets because they are so scared in this moment and that is.
I always grow old with a certain skepticism about the other programs that fortunately we have brought in the sense of a greater benefit for the citizens than also the benefit for housing. These are, of course, all the social benefits. There are quite a few people in our country in the field. It's probably hard. go to the social welfare office and apply for social benefits and that is why in the coming weeks and months it is mainly people like families who are massively affected by high energy prices, the media mentioned, retirees, students , recipients of Hartz IV who will be given something, a one-time payment in part, relieved of which is, like you said, half of society, they're at the end of this process, so we said yes, they don't happen at all, of course that is not true, so once we have this basic consumption which is limited to electricity, we have a relief, the second step that would then specifically concern this family is who we do it ourselves or do something similar for the gas consumer and then we have coverage for this there will be a corresponding task force which is probably a little more complicated the gentlemen sat together for 22 hours over the weekend and i think Because now the MP and others come into play to do something that has an effect as quickly as possible and also reaches the citizens as quickly as possible, I still can't give a 100% convincing answer to every question, especially since I would like to say one more thing nobody had one for this war plan and also for the economic and social consequences we don't have our plan so i'm pretty sure something will follow this third aid package but we have to ask myself The question, for example, are medium-sized companies, small artisan companies, this protective screen or this rescue parachute are already among them. they have been told that they will benefit from the relief package and today our parliamentary group leader also said that we will certainly also be in the coalition if we review these measures and if we then start them, we have really helped everyone, that is the good thing about this democracy thing they can learn that they can make adjustments and they can make improvements and no one will lose their minds if they say that after a quarter of a year we're a little bit smarter now than maybe eight weeks ago i forgot 85 65 billion this third launch that's not nothing I can tell you to say immediately the first thing is that I say that the government is overwhelmed in various aspects, for example a press conference if you give it you also have to name amounts if you don't name them that deepens the uncertainty that should say that the basic rate it's not how much the base is i don't say how much it's supposed to cost either why can't i just explain that beforehand and then give information where people say uh huh that's right com or will it work? it's with the guest, I can tell you what I'm missing, first of all, the groups have always been forgotten until now we retirees don't get anything now they give you a single payment of €300, I don't know €200 either yes, I don't know , by the way, if everyone or only those who have normal and low pensions, I don't know when we see, yes, that's quark, then I also grab it, so that's superfluous, I'm happy to do without it, but another thing that I Like It is important, for example, that people in private insolvency always forget when they receive the money, it goes to the bankruptcy administrator, who only has an allowance of €1,400.
That means that you would have to increase the allowance so that later you pay more for energy and other things. That is always forgotten. Also, freelancers and freelancers are not thought of as many artists by artists, not even solo freelancers. and you are right, nor are small and medium-sized companies that are also highly taxed, that is the second, of course, that I maintain that I am in favor of sanctions against the Russian leadership and also against the oligarchs, but I say that I always have a different attitude with the population, it cannot be our goal, it is bad for the Russian population and if you are bad against the Russian population, of course, if you paralyze the economy, then they will have no job and nothing.
Of course that goes against the populationhere it would not be different and that is why I always say that you have to think carefully about what is done and what is not done, the sanction does not remove everything, far from it everything, but then I would negotiate again in diplomacy and, for example, certain machines would still deliver if they are important to a large industrial company that would otherwise have to lay off 10,000 people, which again has electrical consequences there, but also with us because you always have to know when you impose such sanctions and there are so many answers against answers and we knew how much energy we need from Russia at the moment and that is insufficiently paid attention, but now the measures were apart from that, even if you can comment on it right away, I will say that I will only say the measures themselves, that's little by little again, no It's enough, not many people have thought of it, and above all, it's getting more and more expensive.
Then I read another explosion in a newspaper about energy prices, etc. how do we want to run after them? got the point ht Mr.
Roth would like to know something about sanctions so first about sanctions Sanctions are not just started with the expectation that the person being sanctioned will change their policy entirely within four weeks, but it is also the central signal for democracies. say We are not willing to accept this violation of international law and I believe that democracy should continue to use this means. What have we sanctioned? We have sanctioned the banks, we have sanctioned the economy, but above all to drain the water from the arms industry.
There is not a single weapons system in Russia that does not have a Western one. Know-how can be produced, which means that in the medium In the long term, the arms industry in Russia will no longer be able to produce weapons and there are sanctions against the oligarchs and this must be massively expanded. I am in favor of more sanctions, not less sanctions. We must give these people the windbreak Ten of those who have turned The rich and powerful in Putin have completely dumped themselves out of the water they are still in their Europe and they are looking for a high life and they are buying some luxury apartments in London or in Berlin.
I don't accept that and then something about sanctions. package I still have very good contacts in Europe and I have received many calls in the last few days, how did you do it? that is a huge amount that is the third package we have put almost 100 billion euros on the table so far some things are still unclear but we have plans, especially for those who were not considered retired students last time and if you want That the money arrives quickly and without bureaucracy cannot make it too complicated, but I think that this package is impressive all over Europe and no one once said that it will stay that way for all eternity, on the contrary, the Federal Chancellor also said today Only when we are in a crisis, citizens and also the citizens who have just brought their concerns to us must be able to trust that we will do everything we can to alleviate them as much as possible, so this is an open process that does not end in very big problems with sanctions against Russia, her friends in the party or her colleague Sarah Wagenknecht even talks about an economic war I quote from the federal government against Mo scú and wrote in a guest article that the non-commissioning of Nordstream 2 is also a sanction, the opening would be a sign of relaxation in this economic war in a please ask him about it.
I am responsible for me here. I ask him what would you think of such a relaxation signal about Nord Stream 2. You have to think more that's just an everlasting. topic the Greens were always against the US they were strictly against the federal government and Angela Merkel and also the The SPD was always in favor of that of course that is a completely different form of debate but Putin is not he sets the condition when he now says that he will provide us with anything we want if we open Nord Streams freely, because that is a different situation than my party congress decided by a large majority to be against the opening of Nord Stream 2 and therefore Of course, I respect that, but that's not even my first concern, my first concern is that we need two things, one is secret diplomacy so that a red line is never crossed and it's not.
When World War III comes around, I hope the US has something like that with Russia, but I don't know, and the second thing is that we need conversations where we know what they need. to do to significantly improve our country's energy supply over a longer period of time and you know the alternatives are so dreary now that we buy oil in Qatar i mean kata r is doing the first world cup soccer what should i buy gasoline? Gasoline still comes from the Netherlands and Norway, well of course I became worldwide as well, but I would also try to make sure through talks with Russia that we had a certain amount guaranteed. and i wouldn't point the way i'm going to say i don't care if they give us something or not the main thing is that we get our way the world is not that simple russia is a permanent member of the security council without russia we won't get a signature and from the agreement with Iran we are allowed not to forget everything that you can get very angry, what do you think?
I've been upset with the US, but it never made me say no. no more relations and warriors who violate international law, for example, excuse the USA against Iraq, the sanction of which has been introduced against the USA. I will only say that everything is a little more complicated, you understand and agree, but sure we will think about it if we come to a different energy supply in the talks you made it so easy because once again it gives the impression that your gas suppliers are sanctioned energy relations are not a sanction it's that we made ourselves vulnerable to Mr Putin's blackmailing that is a fault for which I and many others are responsible I may have recognized it a bit earlier, but that does not make me a better person and certainly not a better one Politicians, I also share the responsibility and I think it would be good that we all publicly acknowledge it now we have the opportunity to get out of this dependency and this blackmail does not adhere to the contracts there are contracts that we are not currently doing, without or that Russia breaks them and now we have many I tried for many months to build alternatives it is not gas from Qatar in the first place it is the energy transition more renewable energy there will also be energy savings we get more gas from impeccable democracies like Norway and the Netherlands but those are limited capacities we also get liquefied gas which is expensive from the US for example we will have a terminal from the beginning of January and then we will also be supplied with this liquefied gas here we will have to agree in the European Union and we're currently trying everything they're even discussing extending the life of nuclear power plants that we're so pragmatic and so open like this government probably wasn't a single government before that because it's about this citizen because we want to help the Sir don't end up sitting in the cold room or you can't pay your bills by the way of course the government too In the transition to renewables I am also in favor of that, but I made the mistake of always introducing a bit of a breathing procedure, you were always in reserve, you always have to think of certain moments when that does not work, I mean that the Greens are now getting women and he said nothing that the Greens are now reopening coal and lignite mining areas who could have imagined that ten years ago, yes, or thinking of extending the life of nuclear power plants, only, ultimately For one thing, it's all a bit piecemeal, I don't want to go on discussing dependencies, but we can't pretend that we don't depend on them and that there isn't that much and fracking gas in the US.
I mean you shouldn't forget that the The US has always offered us that and it was refused for ecological reasons and the US was always around 7pm. m. at least bloodless yes i know im not arguing you i just say united states Of course they also assert themselves with their interests with the best will in the world this should not be overlooked because they want us to use fracking gas instead from Nordstream 2. I am not in favor of opening up to Nordseein Two. lest I be misunderstood, but it always annoys me to imply that some actually have their interests and that, to be fair, is actually implying that, if you did it right, you could relatively easily get Vladimir Putin to deliver the agreed amounts of gas that he I would deliver, but how would you go about that, I don't know, I'm saying that I would conduct the conversations accordingly, I would be interested in asking him what your condition is so that you can read us this and that, period and if he mentions. conditions I can't accept I can't do that so maybe we can talk more about it Would this step be enough for you or can you use that step individually about it? t one not to discuss but I know something else I just come from the GDR I don't think I but I think the area would be enough what has been left everything is already under discussion that is not my question at all but I think we will see when which one will be found composer, but I think the only thing they say not is that they see that I come from the GDR and I know Hallstein's time there when there were no or almost no talks between the Federal Republic and the GDR and then no, he came Basic Treaty and permanent representation and suddenly the western journalists were there and I know how when you approach an authoritarian regime, I mean it also applies to different things, by the way, and for others I have my experience that when the West approached, it was for For us, the GDR, it was not easier the other way around and this can be seen from Russia exactly the other way around, yes, of course, and above all we are also going In China the other way around, I am also in favor of the Uyghurs being treated more dignified and that human rights are protected but we can't achieve that through sanctions alone so we really have to try to improve people's situation with offers we are not going to restructure China from the outside all those wishful thinking just to blow the wind windy when vergisi spoke or i asked him what percentage you should what i think what you want i don't know i'm in the unspoken yes that's the unspoken and that's of course the expectation towards Ukraine now don't complain Crimea has been gone for years anyway now he accepts that Russia is really in charge in the east of his country and now he finally gives peace and this approach even if it is not spoken so openly I think it is extremely dangerous because if we accept that then more military conflicts will follow and what bothers me After a bit of
Gysi's argumentation, we rightly affirm that in recent years we have become too dependent on authoritarian regimes economically and, above all, in terms of us of energy policy, one is Russia, the other is China, now my call is to work more closely with democracy in the world Australia New Zealand Japan Canada USA and many, many other states also states that are currently still a little hesitant between us and Russia like India for example but we also have to work more closely with these countries if we now say
Gregor but actually US fracking gas just as bad as Russian gas sticks to blood then white i n Germany, as a democratic country in the heart of Europe, is not supposed to survive economically, I only know, I only know now, I have to say that the US had already fought wars that violate international law without such consequences , and the US had secret prisons that were fully discussed, no, this one-sided us I don't like the one-sided picture either, to be honest neither promised too much at first, which I don't agree with and n almost no point, but you very cheerfully presented it here and made your arguments clear, both sides are necessary because that's who we are.
Difference in Sahra Wagenknecht. They no longer want to be spoken to. Actually, he's still in the right party. definitely in the party and that's the most correct we have which is of course quark let me tell you the link they assume they are the best people because they test and fight poverty and then i say that's always true but you just slightly exaggerate the view of the event and unfortunately it is fine for many in my words thank you for the discussion please come back soon thank you dear viewers for your interest in today's main discussion we will be back soon stay cheerful as best as you can see you soon