Ukraine-Krieg: Sachsens Ministerpräsident Kretschmer im Schlagabtausch | Markus Lanz vom 24.08. 202
exactly six months ago today putin attacked the
ukraine asked me in the preparation because i was of course more intensively involved with you how are you on a day like that you said music shortly before that hundreds of thousands of troops on the border to
ukraine together you said russia needs more respect yes i think this war is for all of us and maybe the american secret services knew more but german politics the public we all didn't want to believe that this terrible crime would happen and these really terrible deeds in the months happened now and that's why it's right when the federal chancellor says a turning point, that's it, but the right thing must follow from it and you've successfully moderated me with all the arguments the things that I'm now bringing in as considerations as someone of 15 years member of the federal parliament was the business and economics study rt has a lot of experience chairman of the foreign affairs committee you did it successfully by pointing out to the afd that none of this can actually be right and that these arguments shouldn't be discussed i think that's a big problem in the current debate is that we are narrowing down to one point of view with one line of argument and that we need a lot more of a broad debate because of arguments for and against, especially with such big questions as war and peace that is extremely important is interesting what i do now they say I would have destroyed the argument with the reference to the AfD I raised the question in the moderation how should someone who lives in a federal state in which this party canceled almost 30 percent of the votes speak that's not all exactly that nobody has to talk somehow but we have people who are freely chosen who have also been with me for 32 years in this country live in the Federal Republic of Germany and have also taken on responsibility here in many respects, have shown that even when it comes to difficult decisions, they also make decisions that are not the majority opinion and to take these arguments to weigh them up, to argue from the point of view and not to reopen any secondary theaters of war right away these are the people who come from the new federal government there is a country that has a difficult political situation that's the problem ok then let's go into it for a moment mrs linden had why is he talking about
kretschmer as well as talking about he has just tried it in parts explain so his approach is to say he wants to expand the debate i would say he would also like to pick up on some of the opinions he gets from his home state of saxony i find it very interesting if you look at them again at the very beginning during your reign in saxony you have e made an interesting interview with the Süddeutsche Zeitung and you said you don't want to lecture people you also want to pick up on the mood you want to listen to people in order not to allow the process of alienation that you attested at the time to grow between you, the one who sits in the state chancellery and those who choose you take part of it i now also was first of all so soberly stated there are numbers that you can look at surveys from july, among other things, this is the ard infratest survey where you can also see that at least the east germans and west germans who have been interviewed are clear there are differences, for example, in the case of sanctions, then a narrow majority of the eastern Germans surveyed say 51% silent sanctions if they burden us, also from 39 percent are in favor of it, so it's a mixed picture, i think the saxon newspaper then raised it again, there's the picture much clearer that means that they also take k of course also the open letters that are now not written to you but to harbeck, among others from the mayor of schneeberg, which are written there with reference to dangerously high energy prices and on the other hand and that is such an anecdotal observation from the past week there was a very interesting argument between you and your deputy where on the one hand you saw how big the differences are even within this state government and then there was a scene where you said exactly this sentence i think we must not make every war our own and exactly At this point there was applause from the scene, at least from some of those present who quoted the climate in Dorsten, and I believe that they also record some of it.
I believe, however, that you have to be careful not only to go into the debating topic but also to take action you must be an opposition politician you are the head of government and then we also have to show ways of overcoming this energy crisis, this price crisis, outside of world politics, and i have the feeling that there is still a bit more going on in other federal states, including east german federal states, so first of all, that's not what politics is all about that look at survey values and act accordingly, but politics consists of going out with your own convictions and also convincing people of this path and we are dealing here with an armed conflict with a war in which many many human rights violations war crimes happen horror actions and from my point of view it is an important moment in this debate to introduce and also to advocate that this war must be frozen that we need a ceasefire that we need negotiations to end this war i experience very little in the public debate and that is why is that's my deep conviction i'm glad that many people in east and west share the fact that one complex is the other is the question what that would be just very briefly on the resolutions for energy very briefly you just said that's something that is public opinion hardly takes place take seriously in the public opinion was that no one would be in favor of negotiating so that this war would end and that the only problem at that point is that the moscow is someone who thwarts all these negotiations all these efforts every second and even don't take it seriously if you take it so easy i'm going to go all out now because the motto is the topic because russia is a terrible war criminal that's right who doesn't want any negotiations right now that's definitely the case and that means that this war has only become a battlefield can be no that's just not true as 3 what's wrong the war criminals of course we said i just said negotiations again no nothing but give an excuse what millions that this war can only be waged on the battlefield only one person represents that and that is vladimir putin unanimously this percentage has risen this position if it is not the ukrainian government still someone who refracts the light constantly about the fact that this war has to be won and i say it very clearly all the time but we constantly talk about the fact that this war has to be solved through negotiations he and we we had through negotiations the proposals for this she gave huge of a huge please agree with our who submitted the proposals who submitted the proposals for negotiations that was the ukrainian government tell me a proposal that vladimir putin would have submitted that offers a basis for discussion for negotiations a single one is not the question of violation at all pfung leads here are the federal republic of germany we are affected to a great extent by this conflict we see the upheavals in the world in africa the hunger the many many problems and the question is how we get into this situation and my impression is and i I think the population sees it the same way, that we are very involved with weapons, with money, with all sorts of things and that we really need a clear rethinking from my point of view.
This war must be ended as soon as possible. Of course we are on the on the
ukraine side the country has been invaded we have to put the aggressor in a position where he can also take part it's all difficult but this debate is not being conducted in germany but people like me who say freeze are being negotiated as naive and that putin asked freeze what do you want because an armed one say it concretely like that and introduced t will or freezing is a yes i can somehow freeze food in my freezer but what does freezing mean in this war that means nothing more than the demands of russia now give in to the maximum demands that means the ukrainian government has to step down a freely elected government that means
ukraine has to give up its state sovereignty and allow itself to be occupied by russia. you have to come to this one. these are the maximum demands and whoever says that you have to meet putin may well be that i understand a putin and don't take this position our own but we have to ensure that a hot war becomes a frozen conflict in many places in the world we have situations like this which will then also give the opportunity to negotiate in the years and decades to come i ask again how through a major diplomatic initiative together me here mi ch have joint action above all also germany france together the european union a clear address from the united states presumably also with china and turkey but first of all it has to be about taking this initiative we have these initiatives just found talks in moscow instead we are in the process of conducting the talks no we made it through every day of course they failed and that's the end of the discussion of course not like that it had to continue in this form the talks have to go on how do you want to resolve this conflict in my opinion you are only better recognized through negotiations and the ears of corn you are better recognized i honestly can't really follow them so you put forward something what is the basic consensus nobody is of the opinion that negotiations shouldn't take place nobody is of the opinion that this war shouldn't end and we can freeze the word semantically for a long time arguing everyone is trying to talk to putin in one way or another you also have this picture in front of your eyes olaf scholz at this absurdly long table this picture when was that interesting is the time of was that a few days before the outbreak of war that now wants to be very brief only the question is half a year further country we are currently having debates that we hear every day anew new weapons more in this direction it is also right to support
ukraine it is I am also not against sanctions when I ask how and how the balancing act you have to support this country these great people who are fighting for their freedom without our support this country would probably have perished by now that's why it's absolutely the right thing to do but as much as i say that i say so much i say we really need a large number of initiatives now a gathering of allies who are going towards each other, who are there because they are also suffering from this economic downturn we are in a small part of the world a terrible war and we plunged the entire world into chaos we see that in small parts right now in germany we what we who falls over the entire all who are very who are all who are currently responsible and not with the same stop stop stop who is throwing the world into chaos putin with his war or the rest of the world is throwing this world into chaos together with putin you have to explain that now so you can this you can have such conversations and always try to kind of give the other a card like that of course, as the aggressor, russia has the primary responsibility for everything and our common demand must be that you stop that, that you as a country leave again there is no reason and no cheap justification for this war that violates international law and for this attack on
ukraine but all of us are acting each of us above all those in the political answers the question with what sanctions, what instruments we are using and how we are now trying to do what willy brandt always said diplomacy is general staff work on peace it has to be the first task to organize its peace the question again i don't understand that you understand me i understand and they often talked about it on the show because they say this is this opinion doesn't get enough attention. people don't talk about it if they often express concern here and about myself and also express understanding for the people who are on the show and represent the position it scares me when in a comparatively small part of the world you can suddenly see such a concentration of weapons from wartime equipment we share that completely and i understand your concern my question is still very simple and mrs eigendorf has already asked it twice in vain asked but didn't get an answer how do you negotiate with someone who doesn't deal andeln wants quite obviously how do you call out tell the other man now do it if you don't make any concessions if you know at the same time that the people in
ukraine don't want that exactly they want calais to become a russian province they want to continue living exactly as they do she lived before 24 february